Mastering the Art of Financial Communication: Navigating Financing Language, Cross-Cultural Nuances, and the Power of Storytelling With Murat Wahab - Speak in Flow

In today’s episode, we delve into the art of financial communication with our esteemed guest, Mr. Murat Wahab. As a well-traveled and multilingual business leader, Mr. Wahab brings extensive experience in financial services in the U.S. and hospitality management both domestically and abroad. Join us as we explore the necessity of understanding and effectively utilizing financial language, the impact of cross-cultural nuances in international finance, and the transformative role of storytelling in making financial pitches engaging and compelling.

1. *Understanding and Using Financial Language Effectively:* We discuss the importance of fluency in financial language and how it enhances communication within the financial sector. Mr. Wahab shares insights into the nuances of terminology and how mastery of financial language can lead to clearer and more effective communication in various financial contexts.

2. *Cross-Cultural Nuances in International Finance:* Mr. Wahab sheds light on the complexities of navigating cross-cultural nuances in the world of international finance. From differences in business customs to varying approaches to negotiation, understanding cultural sensitivities is crucial for success in global finance.

3. *The Role of Storytelling in Financial Communication:* We explore the power of storytelling in capturing attention and making financial pitches memorable. Mr. Wahab shares anecdotes and examples of how weaving narratives into financial presentations can engage audiences, build rapport, and drive impactful decision-making.

Join us for a captivating discussion on mastering the art of financial communication and gain valuable insights into navigating the dynamic landscape of global finance. Stay tuned for more episodes of Speak in Flow, where we uncover the secrets to effective communication in today’s interconnected world.

Guest Profile

Murat Wahab is a seasoned business leader with a diverse background spanning financial services and hospitality management. With his extensive experience both in the U.S. and abroad, Mr. Wahab brings a unique perspective to the intersection of finance, culture, and communication.

Murat Wahab is a highly accomplished business leader with over two decades of experience in Commercial-Middle-Market, Business Banking, Retail Banking, Hospitality Management, and Sales. He has built a vast network of connections with Private Financial Institutions, Private Family Offices, Private Equity Firms, Private Lenders, Banks, Venture Capitalists, Entrepreneurs, and Funders. Mr. Wahab’s firm is named after his late nephew Hakim, a remarkable young man whose life was cut short in an automobile accident at just 16 years old. He aims to honor Hakim’s memory by bringing successful people together to maximize their opportunities and success.

Throughout his career, Mr. Wahab has held several positions at top-tier financial institutions such as Wells Fargo Bank, City National Bank (an RBC Company), JPMorgan Chase & Co, and East West Bank. He was responsible for managing over 300 mid-size companies’ accounts, receiving numerous awards for productivity, sales, and customer satisfaction.

Currently, Mr. Wahab serves on the Global Chamber San Francisco Advisory Board and is a Strategic Advisor at LiVeritas Biosciences. He has also volunteered and served on the boards of various not-for-profit organizations, such as Upwardly Global, Asian Business League of San Francisco, and Enterprise of Youth, among others. He is an accomplished fundraiser and event planner who volunteers his time to support youth development and help immigrants reach their full potential.

Mr. Wahab is an alumnus of Golden Gate University (GGU), where he earned both his Bachelor’s degree and MBA. He was awarded the highest honor that the undergraduate faculty can bestow upon a student, the Student Success Award recipient, and was on the Dean’s List as a graduate student. Additionally, he holds a Hotel and Catering Management Diploma from OUW Malaysia KDU College and a Global Marketing certificate from Riverside University of California.

​​​​​​​Fluent in Malay, English, and Indonesian, Mr. Wahab is a well-traveled and multilingual business leader with extensive experience in financial services in the U.S. and hospitality management experience in the U.S. and abroad.

LI: https://www.linkedin.com/company/hakim-saya/

FB: https://www.facebook.com/HakimSayaLLC

LI: https://www.linkedin.com/in/murat-wahab-mba-53908510/

About Melinda:

Melinda Lee is a Presentation Skills Expert, Speaking Coach and nationally renowned Motivational Speaker. She holds an M.A. in Organizational Psychology, is an Insights Practitioner, and is a Certified Professional in Talent Development as well as Certified in Conflict Resolution. For over a decade, Melinda has researched and studied the state of “flow” and used it as a proven technique to help corporate leaders and business owners amplify their voices, access flow, and present their mission in a more powerful way to achieve results.

She has been the TEDx Berkeley Speaker Coach and worked with hundreds of executives and teams from Facebook, Google, Microsoft, Caltrans, Bay Area Rapid Transit System, and more. Currently, she lives in San Francisco, California, and is breaking the ancestral lineage of silence.

Website: https://speakinflow.com/

Facebook: https://m.facebook.com/speakinflow

Instagram: https://instagram.com/speakinflow

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mpowerall

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Transcript
Melinda Lee:

Welcome, dear listeners, I'm so glad you're

Melinda Lee:

here today I have the honour of introducing an amazing guests,

Melinda Lee:

Murat Wahab He is the founder and principal of Hakeem Saya,

Melinda Lee:

your global funding partner. He has had over 20 years of

Melinda Lee:

experience in banking, entrepreneurship, Small Business

Melinda Lee:

Startup advisory. He's has he provides access to capital to

Melinda Lee:

domestic and international companies. So he has so much

Melinda Lee:

wealth of information when it comes to mastering the art of

Melinda Lee:

financial communication. And I think this is such an important

Melinda Lee:

topic, I love to just dive right in, and just say hi, Maura,

Melinda Lee:

thanks for being here.

Murat Wahab:

Oh, hi, Melinda. I just want to first before we get

Murat Wahab:

started, I just wanted to say thank you so much for inviting

Murat Wahab:

me. It is an honour and privilege to be here and be part

Murat Wahab:

of your journey, and for your own podcasts to speak about the

Murat Wahab:

topics that are dear to my heart, which is that about

Murat Wahab:

related to banking and finance and also related to

Murat Wahab:

communication. So the themes for today that you know, that I was

Murat Wahab:

thinking when you asked me about what are the themes that I want

Murat Wahab:

to talk about is mastering the art of financial communication,

Murat Wahab:

and navigating financing language, cross cultural nuances

Murat Wahab:

in the power of storytelling, which is quite a mouthful, but I

Murat Wahab:

think your audience will be appreciative can learn one or

Murat Wahab:

two, hopefully. And by the end when we finish this

Murat Wahab:

conversation,

Melinda Lee:

I agree, I know that they're going to love this,

Melinda Lee:

I'm going to learn I can't wait to dive in. So tell me, what is

Melinda Lee:

it? Why is it important? Why is it so important that we learn

Melinda Lee:

how to do this,

Murat Wahab:

um, let me just let you know, I've been in banking

Murat Wahab:

for over Wow, me officially 14 years. And then prior to that I

Murat Wahab:

was in the hospitality industry for over 13 years here in

Murat Wahab:

abroad, and then also working in a nonprofit organisation, things

Murat Wahab:

like that. And with the capacity as a founder and principal of

Murat Wahab:

hacking Saya, which is your global funding partner. These

Murat Wahab:

particular themes are very important and relevant,

Murat Wahab:

especially when intrapreneurs or individual, you know, working in

Murat Wahab:

an international setting. So the theme itself is encapsulates the

Murat Wahab:

importance of understanding and effectively using financial

Murat Wahab:

jargon, like many industry have their own acronyms. You know,

Murat Wahab:

financing back financial, in banking industry as well have a

Murat Wahab:

lot of those. So acknowledging the challenges and opportunities

Murat Wahab:

in doing business cross cultural settings, and emphasise the

Murat Wahab:

compelling role of storytelling. In financial pitching, it's very

Murat Wahab:

important, because this is a very comprehensive approach that

Murat Wahab:

will highlight to me is that the significance of communication

Murat Wahab:

skills in the world of the business finance, especially in

Murat Wahab:

the context of international dealings, and also how you

Murat Wahab:

persuade investors or lenders when you're trying to pitch. So

Murat Wahab:

in this in today's I plan to clarify to cover a few key

Murat Wahab:

points or pointers that maybe will help your audience and all

Murat Wahab:

the listeners who listen to your podcast in three things, which

Murat Wahab:

is one, the necessity of understanding and using

Murat Wahab:

financial language effectively, or to the impact of cross

Murat Wahab:

cultural nuances in international finance. And

Murat Wahab:

number three, is the role of storytelling in banking,

Murat Wahab:

financial pitches, engage very engaging and compelling that's

Murat Wahab:

the kind of things that I want to talk about why the topics

Murat Wahab:

these are a very important. Okay, and what is it to so what

Murat Wahab:

is the nuance what is the important start off with there?

Murat Wahab:

The first one absolute? That's a great question. So didn't know

Murat Wahab:

ances is basically like, you know, for example, I have a

Murat Wahab:

client that you know, as, as a, as a founder and principal of

Murat Wahab:

Arkansas, helping my client, you know, my client come from around

Murat Wahab:

the world, one particular client basically based in Africa, so

Murat Wahab:

Africa, you know, just like around the world, people speak

Murat Wahab:

English, but their English is not really necessarily that you

Murat Wahab:

can understand, right? Even though that, you know, they

Murat Wahab:

meant something that you think that you understand, but you

Murat Wahab:

listening, but if you listen carefully, that's not what it

Murat Wahab:

meant. So, this communications style that you know, for

Murat Wahab:

different countries or clients that I work with, particularly

Murat Wahab:

in Africa, because this is what it is sample that I'm giving. So

Murat Wahab:

basically, that will, you know, it's critical when we're

Murat Wahab:

borrower, for example, or the project owners that I dealt with

Murat Wahab:

that the standard of communications and needs to, at

Murat Wahab:

least, you know, be understood by both parties, right? This is

Murat Wahab:

the challenge, because we just because you can speak English

Murat Wahab:

doesn't mean that, culturally, that you can understand the

Murat Wahab:

nuances. And sometimes a lot of those borrowers or individual

Murat Wahab:

when they do business internationally, it just like

Murat Wahab:

they don't understand the American way, and vice versa, so

Murat Wahab:

that they don't understand the other quarter like Japanese, the

Murat Wahab:

Chinese like, and let alone my clients in Africa. So these are,

Murat Wahab:

this is a challenge, I'm going to go with very specific. One

Murat Wahab:

example, when when actually working with my in African

Murat Wahab:

client is that they communicate this way. Like they say that,

Murat Wahab:

okay, I going to apply for X millions of dollars of loans to

Murat Wahab:

these lenders, and then they say, an X, Y, and what year they

Murat Wahab:

say, Okay, on the year one, I'm going to be profitable. So you

Murat Wahab:

know, these are financial literacy, like, Okay, does it

Murat Wahab:

make sense on the yo why, and then when you have documentation

Murat Wahab:

that you provide it like business plan, that you provide

Murat Wahab:

it to the lenders, it shows differently? Because those

Murat Wahab:

facts, factual information is not corroborated with what you

Murat Wahab:

said, and what you prove, because we based on facts and

Murat Wahab:

figures. So the communication needs to be like embedded, and

Murat Wahab:

it has to be clear when you communicate that with the

Murat Wahab:

lender. So can they understand that. So I found that by truly

Murat Wahab:

get to the point, and shows that figures and make sure that what

Murat Wahab:

you provide in factual and figures is actually resonate to

Murat Wahab:

what the documents you're providing, not just saying it.

Melinda Lee:

So when you're working with your client, how

Melinda Lee:

are you able to decipher and discern what is clear or what is

Melinda Lee:

not? So he the persons that profitable? I mean, how have you

Melinda Lee:

done that for so long that you start to make sure that you

Melinda Lee:

clarify?

Murat Wahab:

Yeah, so this is the beauty of it, because I've

Murat Wahab:

been in banking and train in the UK commercial training, alright,

Murat Wahab:

commercial credit trained, and then I have done so many

Murat Wahab:

different actions and different aspects class. So it's come to

Murat Wahab:

step into me, isn't nature right? For me? I don't expect

Murat Wahab:

other people who doesn't have those background be able to dive

Murat Wahab:

dissects or decipher immediately. So for me it is

Murat Wahab:

that very easy that immediately that if somebody just say that

Murat Wahab:

without even saying, I mean, without even actually seeing

Murat Wahab:

those spreadsheets and whatnot, immediately, I can just gauge

Murat Wahab:

and saying this is a goal. Is this a no go?

Murat Wahab:

Because those is based on experience. And it's hard to

Murat Wahab:

actually say, and of course that behind the scenes that when I

Murat Wahab:

have the data, I have to do all the financial spreads and

Murat Wahab:

understanding those data's and communicate to the borrowers.

Murat Wahab:

And what does that mean? Right, right. So it's always good to

Murat Wahab:

definitely when you there's something you're not sure of, to

Murat Wahab:

repeat it, to say it in your own words to make sure the other

Murat Wahab:

party agrees that yes, libre r&d talking about the same thing.

Murat Wahab:

All right, cool. Yeah, yes. And it also very helpful basically

Murat Wahab:

another way the challenge is also about using email. So

Murat Wahab:

email, email is another thing which is that eats can be a

Murat Wahab:

lifesaver but it also can be a big hinderance for a lot of the

Murat Wahab:

borrowers email has a purpose you know, so when these purpose

Murat Wahab:

that it is to communicate that clearly, however, not everybody

Murat Wahab:

is a good underwriter but you know, not not not also they're

Murat Wahab:

not a rap professional writers to make sure that the message

Murat Wahab:

get across, and typically email I perceive is no soul. There's

Murat Wahab:

no soul, you cannot see the body language like we speaking right

Murat Wahab:

now and communicating. So, understand you can say, What do

Murat Wahab:

you mean? Let me just ask that and let me pause. Can you expand

Murat Wahab:

a little bit things like that in email is not often working with

Murat Wahab:

my client and this is miscommunication. And the lender

Murat Wahab:

misunderstood one thing they the borrower misunderstood another

Murat Wahab:

thing. So this is because that the level of knowledge and the

Murat Wahab:

level of experience is dependent on those borrowers that I work

Murat Wahab:

with, because it doesn't mean that successful businessman they

Murat Wahab:

know finance thatI mean that right? So they good what they

Murat Wahab:

do. And similarly, and and I say that you an example of email

Murat Wahab:

that my clients basically my tip is that when you send email,

Murat Wahab:

because sometimes the language that you see the word you said

Murat Wahab:

sometimes you're so used to the let's say the word adapt, what

Murat Wahab:

does it mean? Adapt? So sometimes the lender was it

Murat Wahab:

adapt? What What, what are you talking about? Right? And so

Murat Wahab:

this is the things that I would highly recommend is pick up the

Murat Wahab:

call, or arrange the Zoom call and speak to me or to the lender

Murat Wahab:

directly. to iron out like the misunderstanding, because it's

Murat Wahab:

so easy, especially when you're doing international, you know,

Murat Wahab:

international setting, it's, it's very easy. This thing

Murat Wahab:

happened. Right? So do you recommend when you're because we

Murat Wahab:

have, we're going global? I mean, everybody's working across

Murat Wahab:

the different nations countries? And so do you recommend when you

Murat Wahab:

are working across different cultures to just pick up the

Murat Wahab:

phone? Like how do you know when to email or pick up the phone?

Murat Wahab:

So of course, there's step by step process. So you have to go

Murat Wahab:

through the step by step process, there is also that

Murat Wahab:

initial conversation so initially, you know that you're

Murat Wahab:

trying to get to know each other it's like a dating right? So you

Murat Wahab:

kind of like start with you don't do you don't ask for

Murat Wahab:

marriage proposal, just immediately

Melinda Lee:

ask for money, you're not gonna give me my

Melinda Lee:

money right away.

Murat Wahab:

We're not gonna give you money, no lender is

Murat Wahab:

gonna give money like immediately like, right? So you

Murat Wahab:

have to date and several steps to go through similarly in

Murat Wahab:

financings that, you know, you have to do preliminary

Murat Wahab:

documents, for example, the executive summary, business

Murat Wahab:

plans, your five to 10 years financial projections, your

Murat Wahab:

management resumes, or your sponsors, background, you know,

Murat Wahab:

and construction budget, various construction proceed, like like

Murat Wahab:

that. And then when you start communicating that and then

Murat Wahab:

allow those lenders like for myself, allow me to do the

Murat Wahab:

analysis understands those information first, right. And

Murat Wahab:

sometimes what happened, it was like, Bro are so enthusiastic,

Murat Wahab:

they just, like, bombarded with so much information. And you

Murat Wahab:

know, it's too hard when you trying to digest and dissect,

Murat Wahab:

you know, business plan that 100 pages, for example, to read

Murat Wahab:

through, let alone the financial that they provided in the

Murat Wahab:

spreadsheet, it takes time. Right, just to understand that.

Murat Wahab:

So I think it's very helpful when even communicating, you

Murat Wahab:

know, if they can speak the language of the finance, like,

Murat Wahab:

you know, like, we're looking at when it talks about like

Murat Wahab:

language, we talk about, like, okay, financial ratios, what the

Murat Wahab:

financial ratio, what their service debt service coverage

Murat Wahab:

look like, what's the company, you know, ability to service the

Murat Wahab:

debt that they asking, what is the EBIT? Da? I'm not sure, but

Murat Wahab:

it'd be like earnings before interest, tax depreciation,

Murat Wahab:

amortisation? What's the free cash flow? What you know, all of

Murat Wahab:

these things that is all acronym that they use? So for those who

Murat Wahab:

are in finance, and banking, maybe sounds simple, but a lot

Murat Wahab:

of the people just scratch their head, like, what are you asking

Murat Wahab:

me, you know, so this is important when they should have,

Murat Wahab:

you know, someone's like the CFO, that they work with that

Murat Wahab:

understand and then be part of this, sometimes the CEO or the

Murat Wahab:

owner may think that they know it all, because they know the

Murat Wahab:

business, but they forget that they are not the masters of

Murat Wahab:

everything. Right? Right. Right. Right. And it's takes time it

Murat Wahab:

takes more time to slow down to understand everybody's length to

Murat Wahab:

have a good communication to understand the language of both

Murat Wahab:

parties. Like what culture are you dealing with, like make sure

Murat Wahab:

what if you are pitching that you learn the language as much

Murat Wahab:

as you can if you're pitching and then opposite side if you

Murat Wahab:

are maybe a client? Or Or maybe you are the person with a lot of

Murat Wahab:

technical you're the finance or you have all the jargon you

Murat Wahab:

know, how do you dumb How do you speak the same language so your

Murat Wahab:

client understands? Right? I'll give you an example. Right? So,

Murat Wahab:

Latin America this is and Peru is a term for this you know,

Murat Wahab:

highly educated individuals, you know, from Oxford and Cambridge,

Murat Wahab:

you know, like, you know, this is a smart people, but when when

Murat Wahab:

actually speaking and writing is a different thing and you know

Murat Wahab:

that because some people like to speak fluently but writing is

Murat Wahab:

awful and vice versa. Some people like actually writing

Murat Wahab:

just fantastic flawlessly however, when speaking which is

Murat Wahab:

like not there. Yeah, it is. This is very common that that

Murat Wahab:

I've seen. So in this in this example of working like in a

Murat Wahab:

modern America, you know, smart people and they can speak fluent

Murat Wahab:

English. So whenever that they put it in writing, for example,

Murat Wahab:

You know, my friend said, Oh, we, we have this type of

Murat Wahab:

collateral, X amount of collateral and this unmovable

Murat Wahab:

collateral like assets like land or buildings, whatnot. And then

Murat Wahab:

what he meant by you know, this asset that, that he, he took it

Murat Wahab:

for granted in understanding that the lender probably will

Murat Wahab:

understood what he said. So, assuming is not good, because

Murat Wahab:

the lender then come back when you say, What are you talking

Murat Wahab:

about? You know, then what we asked you for, right? Why? Why

Murat Wahab:

are you saying this? So, so this is what I say is just like that

Murat Wahab:

I have to intervene and then just to get the lender and read

Murat Wahab:

it like, Listen, Mr. Lender, this is not what my client

Murat Wahab:

actually shared that with you and understand, what he's trying

Murat Wahab:

to tell you is this. He has those collateral, he can pledge

Murat Wahab:

the collateral, right? If you were to ask, and then this

Murat Wahab:

collateral that he asked that, that he can pledge to secure the

Murat Wahab:

funding is basically free and clear. You know, some of the

Murat Wahab:

words they don't use, like free and clear. Sometimes they use

Murat Wahab:

what incumbrances They use the word, you know, like, it's very

Murat Wahab:

the language in itself. It's like, not that it's kind of

Murat Wahab:

getting away sometimes.

Melinda Lee:

And so what do you really totally I mean,

Melinda Lee:

basically, okay, jargon is one thing. Jargon is completely

Melinda Lee:

almost encrypted. And slang is always encrypted. Those are

Melinda Lee:

obvious and then there's like, what you're saying to me just

Melinda Lee:

basic words. Adapt profitable, you know, you profitability

Melinda Lee:

could be kind of hard to but even adapt or accommodate, like,

Melinda Lee:

even those one the words that are you feel like could be very

Melinda Lee:

clear. It's not,

Murat Wahab:

it's not like, you know, it's so funny sometimes

Murat Wahab:

that when you hear this good bunch is not funny in a way that

Murat Wahab:

it's lost in translation. It does. It does loss in

Murat Wahab:

translation, and sometimes that my client is do I advise them?

Murat Wahab:

If you were to write in English, maybe if you are fluent in

Murat Wahab:

Spanish, kind of like have both? Yeah, just just kind of like to

Murat Wahab:

knowing the fact that you know, the, the other side of the world

Murat Wahab:

actually speak other languages, maybe French or Spanish by

Murat Wahab:

Spanish, for example, like, you know, it's the second language

Murat Wahab:

that in Latin America that mostly beside Portuguese, so, so

Murat Wahab:

I would say yeah, then will be very helpful to have that your

Murat Wahab:

two languages, you know, avoid from Miss understanding because

Murat Wahab:

you're more comfortable on your own language.

Melinda Lee:

Right, right. Right, right. Oh, yeah, I'm

Melinda Lee:

learning Mandarin right now. This I'm gonna get on my

Melinda Lee:

Mandarin classes even more.

Murat Wahab:

Yeah, you know what, I used to work in Vietnam

Murat Wahab:

before when I was in the hospitality, you know, that I

Murat Wahab:

did. You know, I studied Italian. And I was in Vietnam.

Murat Wahab:

And then when I studied some Vietnamese, Vietnamese

Murat Wahab:

languages, so like, very, very difficult and challenging. And

Murat Wahab:

one example is the word like, you know, because there are

Murat Wahab:

different tone when you learn Mandarin, there's a different

Murat Wahab:

tone. So for example, the word chicken like in Vietnam,

Murat Wahab:

Vietnamese, like God, they will select No, we don't pronounce

Murat Wahab:

God the God like almost like longer. I always butchered them,

Murat Wahab:

and I messed up, right. So this is the example like, that's what

Murat Wahab:

I say like, you know, you think, no, but actually, you don't know

Murat Wahab:

because of that, that dust. There is a difference meaning

Murat Wahab:

for that? Oh, yeah, just like a simple tone. Just like if you

Murat Wahab:

just go up a little bit too high changes higher meaning? Yeah.

Murat Wahab:

Yeah. And then also the financial jargon in banking is I

Murat Wahab:

see like these AML the ATA the OCC FRB, you know, so almost

Murat Wahab:

like, what is that?

Melinda Lee:

Yeah.

Murat Wahab:

You know, like, for example, we say you need to

Murat Wahab:

actually pass the factor of the FCRA. Like, of aliens that

Melinda Lee:

English is already hard enough. The regular spoken

Melinda Lee:

word, so

Murat Wahab:

yeah, you biotech basically is a lot more. Yes.

Murat Wahab:

Yes. So for all the people that are out there that are in

Murat Wahab:

technology, or in your own industry with very specific

Murat Wahab:

niche language, just remember that English is already hard

Murat Wahab:

enough. So when you're talking to a client or a key

Murat Wahab:

stakeholder, or you're someone else that you need to either

Murat Wahab:

pitch or make an offer, you know, just remember that some of

Murat Wahab:

those languages it's very difficult for other people and

Murat Wahab:

so just consider your audience always consider your audience.

Murat Wahab:

Perhaps their style of communication style of

Murat Wahab:

communication is important. What is her personality type? Do they

Murat Wahab:

like a lot of details, or do they like just very bullet in to

Murat Wahab:

the point, right, yeah, another call

Melinda Lee:

Sure, like you mentioned, culture is important,

Melinda Lee:

and especially if you're doing international work, right, what

Melinda Lee:

is their culture? Because now you're layering on another

Melinda Lee:

aspect that you really need to consider one word, what you

Melinda Lee:

think might mean completely something different in another

Melinda Lee:

culture, right? Or what

Murat Wahab:

exactly, is it's a very different world. And then I

Murat Wahab:

agree that with you that know your audience, would you do and

Murat Wahab:

now don't assume things that just because that everybody

Murat Wahab:

speak English, when they understand English? No, the

Murat Wahab:

understanding is a little bit more different than you never

Murat Wahab:

insulted the internet. They're intelligent, obviously. But

Murat Wahab:

understanding those culture, the nuances are very important as

Murat Wahab:

well. Now when other things like in the in the language that you

Murat Wahab:

know, in finance, or even the basic stuff, when lenders

Murat Wahab:

actually trying to consider regardless of my lenders, or

Murat Wahab:

banks or non bank, they're looking at like, you know,

Murat Wahab:

they're trying to assess right there is five, I don't know

Murat Wahab:

whether you heard about five C's in basically in, in the lending

Murat Wahab:

in the bank. And so if the five C's are basically that the

Murat Wahab:

capacity, the capital, or the collateral, or the conditions

Murat Wahab:

and character, okay, so this is what else is the basic stuff

Murat Wahab:

when any lender is trying to gauge of how they want to extend

Murat Wahab:

credit to besides well, all other, of course, criteria that

Murat Wahab:

have to be met. But let's take a look about these five, see, I

Murat Wahab:

will take the last one, the characters, character is leaning

Murat Wahab:

is very important. So I'll give you an example of my clients

Murat Wahab:

that I've known them for very long time from my days at Wells

Murat Wahab:

Fargo, JP Morgan, and then, you know, even when I'm

Murat Wahab:

entrepreneurs right now, and then they came back to me, I

Murat Wahab:

know, when they come back to me, I said, Okay, I got my work cut

Murat Wahab:

out for this one. Because I know that very well. So they came

Murat Wahab:

back and, you know, I understand what challenges that I'm going

Murat Wahab:

to face because I know these these owners very well, right?

Murat Wahab:

And so why and why? So why why they, you know, approached me

Murat Wahab:

and asked for help. So in particularly in this in this

Murat Wahab:

scenario is this, my clients are trying to refinance a commercial

Murat Wahab:

real estate in San Francisco, what had happened is, is that we

Murat Wahab:

talked about character. So unfortunately, that the the

Murat Wahab:

things that happened a long time ago, so you know, in the in the

Murat Wahab:

banking and finance world, when your client tell you something

Murat Wahab:

that they did, we are obligated to actually to communicate that

Murat Wahab:

to the management to so we have to do our legal due diligence to

Murat Wahab:

make sure that these are still you know, whether or not that is

Murat Wahab:

still rings true. And we have to find the facts finding and to

Murat Wahab:

make sure that we need to get those right now, whether it

Murat Wahab:

mitigates the risk, but in this case of character, big issue. So

Murat Wahab:

my client, basically that, you know, they basically kicked out

Murat Wahab:

from another bank, and then they were they have these bank,

Murat Wahab:

existing bank doesn't want to refinance them, so I have to

Murat Wahab:

help them to find a new one. So long story short, what I did is

Murat Wahab:

actually I knew that a bank, that community bank in the Bay

Murat Wahab:

Area that basically that when I approached them, this is what

Murat Wahab:

the communications is all about. I understand the background and

Murat Wahab:

what's the challenges is and how to mitigate, mitigate that risk

Murat Wahab:

immediately when I approached these banks, I say that, look,

Murat Wahab:

you're not gonna have any issue with a five see the early on

Murat Wahab:

with the capital, the collateral, the capacities, the

Murat Wahab:

condition, but you're going to have a problem with the

Murat Wahab:

characters here. So if you're going to get comfortable and

Murat Wahab:

then go to these, you know, the the Korea credit committee,

Murat Wahab:

sometimes they do have that and in the bank credit committee,

Murat Wahab:

and if they can be comfortable and behind these transactions

Murat Wahab:

and the reasons why the reason behind it that this has

Murat Wahab:

happened. And I say that then only if they can if they get

Murat Wahab:

comfortable, then I would say this is a good deal, because the

Murat Wahab:

rest the financial ratio, if you're talking about DTI, if

Murat Wahab:

you're talking about a big deal, you're talking about free cash

Murat Wahab:

flow, he's talking about net profit, that is non issue.

Murat Wahab:

Character is the issue. You see. So yeah, so this is important,

Murat Wahab:

right? I mean, like you don't have anything else but that one

Murat Wahab:

thing is still a big thing. So long story short, what happened

Murat Wahab:

is, is that they by communicating that and

Murat Wahab:

understanding what the roots of the problems I have, how I

Murat Wahab:

communicate that make sure that the lender themselves

Murat Wahab:

understanding and they can get behind it be comfortable, then

Murat Wahab:

they can help the client. And the client also have to be of

Murat Wahab:

course, you have to be honest and transparent, based on

Murat Wahab:

factual, right, factual data, that is like cut both ways. And

Murat Wahab:

so we managed, like to get them a new home to a different bang,

Murat Wahab:

and then the findings that they get, but it's a lot of work. Of

Murat Wahab:

course, like anything else. Everything is a lot of work

Murat Wahab:

behind it behind the scene, but just to get that in the

Murat Wahab:

communicating and understand like every party We're under the

Murat Wahab:

same voice and have to do their part to make sure that everybody

Murat Wahab:

communicated. Right, and understanding the the root of

Murat Wahab:

the causes of the problem and find the solution, the viable

Murat Wahab:

solution that everybody can be comfortable, especially on the

Murat Wahab:

lender.

Melinda Lee:

I think that's so cool. I think that's so amazing

Melinda Lee:

how how important and critical communication can be, especially

Melinda Lee:

in these really difficult situations and financial complex

Melinda Lee:

challenges, you really have to be really good communicator.

Murat Wahab:

Absolutely, you know, another anecdote that I

Murat Wahab:

can give you like, you know, I have a former colleagues at the

Murat Wahab:

bank, so smart, you know, credit train commercially credited

Murat Wahab:

smart guy, you know, so, the, what I realised is that he the

Murat Wahab:

challenges that we face as being a banker, you know, banker also

Murat Wahab:

like any business, you got to sell, right, you got to sell

Murat Wahab:

like the product and services of your employer of the bank. So he

Murat Wahab:

he was not able, actually to close deals. And when I say to

Murat Wahab:

close deals, like when he talked to communicate with the

Murat Wahab:

borrowers, or potential borrowers, I would say, it's,

Murat Wahab:

it's always ended up like, why are these borrowers are not

Murat Wahab:

agreeing or wanted to go with them? For example. There are no

Murat Wahab:

doubt there are various reason personality, whatnot. But one

Murat Wahab:

things that I do realise any applies to like everyone's in

Murat Wahab:

sales. It's basically that when you go back to Melinda, when you

Murat Wahab:

say that, you know, that the communication style, whether you

Murat Wahab:

are a big picture persons, you are, you are very specific. So

Murat Wahab:

what happened in this situation is, is that my former colleagues

Murat Wahab:

is that he is more is a very detail oriented, it's not to say

Murat Wahab:

that's not important, it is important, but it's seeing the

Murat Wahab:

big picture here, because at the end the borrower who are not

Murat Wahab:

savvy in terms of understanding how what the financial with the

Murat Wahab:

process, what does that mean, with all these jargon that you

Murat Wahab:

will have to meet this number, you have to differential ratio,

Murat Wahab:

you have to be debt service coverage, you have to, you know,

Murat Wahab:

oh my gosh, he is good with this business. At the end, you know,

Murat Wahab:

those borrowers only one thing that he said that he wants the

Murat Wahab:

deal or not. That's all came out of his mouth. Oh, my God, you

Murat Wahab:

see what I mean? Yeah. So basically, my advice is that you

Murat Wahab:

take that, because the response from the borrower, because you

Murat Wahab:

cannot put like on your as a bank, even no matter how

Murat Wahab:

knowledgeable Are you? And no, no much, no matter? How much are

Murat Wahab:

you trying to help, but you gotta understand your audience

Murat Wahab:

and this particular borrower. But financing is not for

Murat Wahab:

everyone. Right? He got his running his business, that's why

Murat Wahab:

he's successful. Right? So but it just doesn't mean that he

Murat Wahab:

knows the banking and then all the things that you do day in

Murat Wahab:

and day out as a banker? No, it's not either, and neither

Murat Wahab:

does the client or whoever you're trying to close a deal

Murat Wahab:

with need to know all those details. Yes. And you have too

Murat Wahab:

overwhelming, it's overwhelming.When you start

Murat Wahab:

breaking down into the nuances of what entails. Yeah, it's

Murat Wahab:

doesn't have to be that way. And people yawn after that.

Melinda Lee:

Yeah, I think there's a timing for it, there's

Melinda Lee:

a time and place for it, right. And this message is really,

Melinda Lee:

really important for all everyone, because of the

Melinda Lee:

audience here. There's some corporate people, and they're

Melinda Lee:

very technical, they're engineers, they might be, and so

Melinda Lee:

that they it's really difficult sometimes, because you're so

Melinda Lee:

smart, and you want to give so much information. And if you

Melinda Lee:

feel like the more information you give, the more smart you

Melinda Lee:

look, or the more you know, and the more you impress the person,

Melinda Lee:

right. And then on the other side, meanwhile, the other

Melinda Lee:

person on the other side is actually not You're not even

Melinda Lee:

connecting, you're not clicking.

Murat Wahab:

No, I completely agree with you. So So basically,

Murat Wahab:

that, you know, don't try too hard. And just because like, for

Murat Wahab:

example, and I came across this as well, when you mentioned

Murat Wahab:

about ingenious, right, and they're precise. So that's why

Murat Wahab:

they wanted to be very precise of answers that they weren't.

Murat Wahab:

They didn't realise that they are not accounting person,

Murat Wahab:

right? The finance in the banking, they sometimes what I

Murat Wahab:

have seen it is that this can potentially kill the deal

Murat Wahab:

themselves. Because what you say, and it's kind of like

Murat Wahab:

changed the minds of the lenders. So when you have that

Murat Wahab:

and so there's nothing wrong that you want to as much as

Murat Wahab:

details that you want, but also that there is a place in time

Murat Wahab:

for that. Right. I think the tip is like I would say to the

Murat Wahab:

audience, like avoid trying to avoid using financial jargons

Murat Wahab:

are very complex financial terms when speaking to a diverse

Murat Wahab:

audience. Because you never know, because not everyone is

Murat Wahab:

like, you know, they're, they're banking professionals and

Murat Wahab:

finance, but it's a lot of the non finance professional people,

Murat Wahab:

right? So just trying to avoid that and speak in the very

Murat Wahab:

claimed English or plain language that everybody's can

Murat Wahab:

understand. And even that remains just just to be aware,

Murat Wahab:

don't assume that even the plain English sometimes that plain

Murat Wahab:

English may not be what they you want them to think. Correct?

Murat Wahab:

Absolutely. And ask questions. Can you can you paraphrase? Do

Murat Wahab:

you understand and have the other person repeat it? Right.

Murat Wahab:

And also, now, I've said that, if that's the power of

Murat Wahab:

storytelling, the story is that so how know how many times that

Murat Wahab:

I come across, because I advise many startup established

Murat Wahab:

companies and even at the sea level, when you talk about sea

Murat Wahab:

level CEOs, CFOs, you know, like, this is a very high level

Murat Wahab:

on the leadership role that they have in their company. But that

Murat Wahab:

doesn't mean they're actually experts, and banking and finance

Murat Wahab:

career accepting their CPA or CFO, sometimes even the CFO,

Murat Wahab:

different, depending on the level of experiences of the CFO

Murat Wahab:

has, whether they are actually working on the small company,

Murat Wahab:

big company, you know, that's a very difference, right. And so

Murat Wahab:

that's why even in the bank, and you have small business, you

Murat Wahab:

have, you have the commercial bank and below market, and then

Murat Wahab:

you have a corporate finance everything. And then you have

Murat Wahab:

the investment banking. So every, that's long line of

Murat Wahab:

business, have a different approach, and has a different

Murat Wahab:

like, understanding, so powers, how this the power of

Murat Wahab:

storytelling, I cannot just, you know, say these enough, so

Murat Wahab:

especially in entrepreneurs and startup out there, and the

Murat Wahab:

founders, listen, you're gonna be, you know, as a founders,

Murat Wahab:

you're going to have a founders dilemma, but do know, you don't

Murat Wahab:

know everything like me, I don't know, a lot of things. You know

Murat Wahab:

what, you know, I know what I know. Simple as that. However,

Murat Wahab:

that doesn't stop us from learning from each other. So the

Murat Wahab:

startups is basically that, you know, when I advise them as

Murat Wahab:

typically when they tried to pitch to raise capital, right,

Murat Wahab:

and a lot of times, and it really depends, sometimes the

Murat Wahab:

CEO, I mean, not CEO, but in the startup like a founder. So they

Murat Wahab:

always thinks that they have to know it all. And they know it

Murat Wahab:

all everything, right. But they don't understand that you're not

Murat Wahab:

in HR, because you never work in HR. You, you are not in a PR and

Murat Wahab:

marketing. Because sometimes you are the worst, the worst person

Murat Wahab:

to represent your company to to speak publicly about your

Murat Wahab:

company. Right? Yeah. So for example, like giving you that,

Murat Wahab:

you know, when I studied my MBA, and if the university, you know,

Murat Wahab:

in my cohort, there is one person that actually I'm so

Murat Wahab:

impressed every single time with her. And this is why she works

Murat Wahab:

in the, in the healthcare industry, and she always

Murat Wahab:

negotiate with the unions. And it's not easy to do negotiation

Murat Wahab:

with the union. And what it does is basically is that sometimes

Murat Wahab:

when I talk about certain things, she can come out, maybe

Murat Wahab:

in a one line is a, that's what you say, exactly, she can

Murat Wahab:

capture everything, the essence of what I wanted to convey, and

Murat Wahab:

communicate that very clear. So these talents, right, and

Murat Wahab:

telling the stories. Now, going back to the founders, when they

Murat Wahab:

pitch, right, they need to actually find the people and the

Murat Wahab:

companies that know how to pitch of course, the best founders to

Murat Wahab:

represent the company, because they are the one founding the

Murat Wahab:

company. But I've seen often founders, when you're not ready

Murat Wahab:

to get nervous in front of the audience, like maybe they should

Murat Wahab:

engage you Melinda to speak in flow. You know, learn how to,

Murat Wahab:

you know how to speak, you know, publicly, and because it's not

Murat Wahab:

everybody's cup of tea, when they get nervous, they lost a

Murat Wahab:

train of thought. And basically, then the investors look like

Murat Wahab:

you're not confidence, how can we, you know, trust you as a,

Murat Wahab:

you know, with our money, you know, things like that. And so,

Murat Wahab:

the power of storytelling is is that we make sure what you

Murat Wahab:

present that on the pitch deck is basically that it create a

Murat Wahab:

stories that resonate to the investors or to the lenders that

Murat Wahab:

you're talking to, because it's provided the narrative that you

Murat Wahab:

know, for that respective companies and that you're trying

Murat Wahab:

to do right, but for example, you know, sometimes basic stuff

Murat Wahab:

that I've seen recently, you know, a founder who present to

Murat Wahab:

the investors, he doesn't even look when you speak, doesn't

Murat Wahab:

have eye contact, and oh, he looked down all the time, look

Murat Wahab:

on the floor. So I realised Is that that mean that that is a

Murat Wahab:

basic stuff? You shouldn't do that because it knows itself,

Murat Wahab:

how tired you are, I don't know how many meetings and pitches

Murat Wahab:

that you've already done. But it's like you only got one shot

Murat Wahab:

every single time. That's so

Melinda Lee:

so I want to clarify, did you say that the as

Melinda Lee:

a when you're pitching or when you're telling a story you want

Melinda Lee:

to pick a story that resonates with the audience resonates with

Melinda Lee:

the investor?

Murat Wahab:

Yes. And remember those investors? When do you

Murat Wahab:

want to invest? A lot of those investor have experienced in the

Murat Wahab:

industry that they want to invest?

Melinda Lee:

Right? So how do I know if I'm trying to pitch How

Melinda Lee:

do I know that? What what do you just look online to say, hey,

Melinda Lee:

this traditionally, this person has invested in your homework,

Melinda Lee:

right?

Murat Wahab:

So basically, for your pitch your invitation for

Murat Wahab:

Who are these VCs? For example? Who are these guys at the angel

Murat Wahab:

groups are intolerant? If you can find your point of contact

Murat Wahab:

and do a little bit of research, who you are, it just like when

Murat Wahab:

people go for job interviews, right, the brain builder who's

Murat Wahab:

the interviewer, and then what it is do your homework a little

Murat Wahab:

bit and then know that so when you're speaking, so you get

Murat Wahab:

ready. And sometimes, you know, I would say a lot of the VCs,

Murat Wahab:

the one that the time one, the kind of the kind of kindness,

Murat Wahab:

they they actually provide like, insight, like, Okay, this is

Murat Wahab:

what we're looking for. Yeah. But are you? Are you telling

Murat Wahab:

them? Are you training them to do a story around their

Murat Wahab:

background? And why they started the company? Or what kind of

Murat Wahab:

stories are they storytelling, it's like, it's very powerful.

Murat Wahab:

For example, founders, like why they're passionate about their

Murat Wahab:

product, they're passionate about the product. Why is that?

Murat Wahab:

How does it come about that they're trying to solve? The

Murat Wahab:

problem is this problem is just like one problem just only

Murat Wahab:

applied to them, or this is a problem globally, that they need

Murat Wahab:

to tackle and then can help people around the world

Murat Wahab:

globally. A lot of the investors that they looking at how big

Murat Wahab:

like this company can go IPO, right? If the problems and the

Murat Wahab:

solutions that the company is trying to provide is is that

Murat Wahab:

solutions that are going to tackle the or disrupt the market

Murat Wahab:

disruptive technologies globally, right, because then

Murat Wahab:

that your products can go global. But if the products or

Murat Wahab:

the services you that you actually trying to solve is only

Murat Wahab:

one of the local problems may not be the investors that they

Murat Wahab:

want to invest in your company, because they're looking for

Murat Wahab:

different things that that more company can go global. Yeah,

Murat Wahab:

yeah. So, so passionate is about what you're driven, why you're

Murat Wahab:

driven, right? And then why is that your management team is the

Murat Wahab:

right team for you to execute, and to execute your company and

Murat Wahab:

then get this company off the ground and be successful.

Murat Wahab:

Do stories important, and they don't. And like, for example,

Murat Wahab:

recently, I asked like this founder. And he said, I asked

Murat Wahab:

him to how do you know your co founder? Because you have three

Murat Wahab:

founders, you have, you have all of them three. And then this co

Murat Wahab:

founders, one of them is actually from the high school,

Murat Wahab:

so they know each other. They're buddies, the article founder

Murat Wahab:

that became unfortunately that co founder, it became a CEO. So

Murat Wahab:

my question is that how do you get to know and pick this

Murat Wahab:

person, as a CEO? When one person that you are in the bay

Murat Wahab:

area here, and one person in the Philippines? How do you how do

Murat Wahab:

you get to know each other? And how do you select this person as

Murat Wahab:

a CEO and why?

Melinda Lee:

Right?

Murat Wahab:

So this is like, and because I saw when they

Murat Wahab:

doing this pitching, right? The founders who do the pitching is

Murat Wahab:

like, uncomfortable and the story, but there's not the same

Murat Wahab:

of passions that you have on the local high school.

Melinda Lee:

Oh, got it. Got it. Got it. That makes sense, right?

Murat Wahab:

It doesn't trump doesn't see it,

Melinda Lee:

you can see and totally see it. Yeah.

Murat Wahab:

The comfortable, uncomfortable.

Melinda Lee:

Yes, yes. Yeah, I agree. I can see that, because

Melinda Lee:

I've worked with a lot of different presenters. And this

Melinda Lee:

is really true, even though you're talking about someone

Melinda Lee:

pitching to gain capital from investors, the same concepts

Melinda Lee:

apply to whether you're pitching to stakeholder, if you're an

Melinda Lee:

organisation, and your company leaders, sometimes you have to

Melinda Lee:

pitch your your initiative, like this initiative is going to help

Melinda Lee:

if you're thinking about how it can help globally, your earlier

Melinda Lee:

like the investors want to hear how it's going to help globally.

Melinda Lee:

So if you're pitching an initiative, think broader, how's

Melinda Lee:

this going to help the company versus maybe your department, or

Melinda Lee:

your story, a compelling story, if you're only thinking about

Melinda Lee:

the department or the organ, like the one area just think

Melinda Lee:

more broadly, and then that will be more compelling and tell

Melinda Lee:

stories on that and that'll be more compelling for your

Melinda Lee:

stakeholders

Murat Wahab:

to even do and I can say as a principal, your

Murat Wahab:

global funding partner when I look at the project finance

Murat Wahab:

ticularly that I'm gonna get excited what for example, what

Murat Wahab:

project okay, it's not just like Oh, I'm doing this XYZ project

Murat Wahab:

cost 2 Billion US dollar sounds big, you know, all that. It

Murat Wahab:

doesn't matter to me. And sometimes it's that the project

Murat Wahab:

will be only 20 million or 50 million. But what matters to me

Murat Wahab:

is looking at what project what impact they have in the

Murat Wahab:

community, how many jobs are planning to create? And also

Murat Wahab:

what kind of impact that they have to the world? And how are

Murat Wahab:

these going to serve them to realise their project become

Murat Wahab:

reality? Because I think it is very important not only like

Murat Wahab:

trying to seek out money, right? And but the project, what is

Murat Wahab:

have you done to the community that you live, or the global

Murat Wahab:

community that do going to have these impacts? So it's got more

Murat Wahab:

excited about that, rather than I have this cool technology that

Murat Wahab:

I'm going to do like renewable energy, whatnot. But what does

Murat Wahab:

that mean? Right?

Melinda Lee:

Impact, right, yeah. And then and then when

Melinda Lee:

you're speaking is speaking with passion, not just looking at the

Melinda Lee:

ground and look at the ground the whole time? Yeah.

Murat Wahab:

This is basic, but it's happened dated,

Melinda Lee:

especially when you're nervous, especially

Melinda Lee:

nervous, like,

Murat Wahab:

I get nervous as well, no matter how

Murat Wahab:

professionals I am. But you know, but sometimes the ideas I

Murat Wahab:

lost my train of thought people would just come back backed up,

Murat Wahab:

right? You know, how you go into, like, quickly, and just,

Murat Wahab:

like, recover from that moment. And then sometimes we do like, I

Murat Wahab:

call it like, I have a senior moment, but I'm not senior yet.

Murat Wahab:

But if you know, you can make a joke about it.

Murat Wahab:

Immediately, immediately, you backed up and then just learn

Murat Wahab:

you can Okay, right? And so it happens to everyone it happened

Murat Wahab:

to any entertainer no matter what and how professional they

Murat Wahab:

are, like when they go on stage did suddenly they forget the

Murat Wahab:

lyrics?

Melinda Lee:

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I get it. Yeah. Oh, my goodness,

Melinda Lee:

that was really amazing. I think they were very, that was a

Melinda Lee:

fantastic piece of great tips, helping us to understand the

Melinda Lee:

complexity of financial communication everywhere, from

Melinda Lee:

jargon to e mail to even just regular plain English, how it

Melinda Lee:

can be quite nuanced and complicated, but I think you've

Melinda Lee:

provided some really good tips of how to, to navigate this, how

Melinda Lee:

to master it. I like storytelling and being able to

Melinda Lee:

tell compelling stories. And same with passion and go big,

Melinda Lee:

like, say compelling, I think bigger, what is the impact that

Melinda Lee:

you're trying to make and tell a story around it?

Murat Wahab:

Absolutely. And I think it was just that for my

Murat Wahab:

years is, you know, seeing and seeing being judging a lot of

Murat Wahab:

these sometimes the competitions, right pitch, pitch

Murat Wahab:

competitions, the demo day, that people that, you know, a lot of

Murat Wahab:

these accelerators, whatever they do, and I've seen that

Murat Wahab:

companies coming from South Africa, you know, like South

Murat Wahab:

Korea, coming coming from Malaysia, Singapore is, you

Murat Wahab:

know, all the other different parts of the world when they

Murat Wahab:

pitch is very different. Because they are, you know, the cultural

Murat Wahab:

differences and how they are Americans are their friends, you

Murat Wahab:

know, Americans is always like, I would say, in general always

Murat Wahab:

come out, but actually that very confidence, you know, sometimes

Murat Wahab:

even like, then the American Way is is little bit different than

Murat Wahab:

happy digging more like on the facts. So is that correct, you

Murat Wahab:

know, like, but they show that they present themselves a very

Murat Wahab:

difference. And then sometimes that I've seen another country

Murat Wahab:

when they pitch like they are very shy, and because of

Murat Wahab:

culturally, even though the company is really good at what

Murat Wahab:

they're doing, but when they're building is fantastic. But it is

Murat Wahab:

that the way that they don't, you know, like trying to

Murat Wahab:

communicate that they don't know how, because they're afraid of

Murat Wahab:

that being boastful. They're afraid that being egoistic,

Murat Wahab:

right. See that way?

Melinda Lee:

Right. Yeah, it's interesting. It's interesting

Melinda Lee:

and it's not sure.

Murat Wahab:

Yeah, it just it is not so I think it like you know,

Murat Wahab:

cultural differences. You know, I do have a colleagues that you

Murat Wahab:

know, wrote a book about, you know, how to talk to Americans

Murat Wahab:

basically, and she's the author and one of the co author of How

Murat Wahab:

to talk to two Americans and doing business so her job is

Murat Wahab:

basically like learning new people that you know, how to not

Murat Wahab:

to piss off other people when you're doing this like you know,

Murat Wahab:

like when you have to like elbow bombs and certain coaches, you

Murat Wahab:

know,

Melinda Lee:

oh my gosh, that was so fun. I was awesome. How

Melinda Lee:

would EFA a company domestic international company need some

Melinda Lee:

access to capital? How could they find you?

Murat Wahab:

Absolutely. I welcome any opportunity to work

Murat Wahab:

even a small medium enterprises, whether you are domestics,

Murat Wahab:

companies or whether you are international companies. And

Murat Wahab:

please you can reach out to go to my website, which is

https:

//www.hakimsaya.com/contact So it's

https:

//www.hakimsaya.com/contact start with that first fill up

https:

those inquiry form. And in a send us an email at info at

https:

hacking cya.com. And when you fill out those forms, and then

https:

it gave you the, you know, options to whether that you do

https:

international project financing or invoice financing, or for

https:

domestics request as well reach out, and you know, call, it's

https:

great, but you know, because I'm busy, so maybe the best way is

https:

actually to get hold of me is through email. And then when I

https:

get comfortable, I would definitely that reach out to

https:

each individual. I have very swift response. And I am also

https:

very quick and say yes or no, whether I can work with you or

https:

not. Wonderful, thank you so much. And we're gonna put your

https:

website also in the show notes. Oh, okay. Thank you so much, Melinda.

https:

Yeah, I really hope that, you know, your audience and, you

https:

know, will benefit at least one or two, what we discussed today

https:

on your podcast. And, again, it's a it's a privilege, and

https:

it's an honour to be part of your journey. I wish you the all

https:

the best and so successful on your podcast. So and then you

https:

can invite me to come back the next day.

Melinda Lee:

And of course, there's a lot that we can learn

Melinda Lee:

even more, I mean, this is so much to talk about. But thank

Melinda Lee:

you so much for sharing, that what you gave today was valuable

Melinda Lee:

and valuable. I trust you're gonna get some nuggets and and

Melinda Lee:

learn on how to do this.

Murat Wahab:

Yes. And last but not least, do know for your

Murat Wahab:

audience, when I speak, it's come from the place of really

Murat Wahab:

care. That's the place that I talk about. It's it's not merely

Murat Wahab:

lip services, that is from the place that I know that I'm

Murat Wahab:

deeply sincere. When I shared that four decades of experiences

Murat Wahab:

and knowledge,

Melinda Lee:

I know, and that's why we are that's why we're

Melinda Lee:

buddies. I work colleagues and you know, our audience, my

Melinda Lee:

audience, or a heart centred leaders on a mission on a

Melinda Lee:

mission to make an impact, make a difference. And so thank you

Melinda Lee:

Murad. Thank you, dear listeners for being here. And I'll see you

Melinda Lee:

at the next episode. Take care.

Murat Wahab:

Thank you guys. Thanks.